Life Support Project
From: Terry Kok
--- "Dean Calahan, FoB"
> Couple of thoughts: >> On the simulant thing: if we developed a robust > process for making soil from > various types of rock (or sand), that worked across > a wide spectrum HERE, > and on Lunar simulant, we'd be that much farther > ahead of the game once we > got "real" simulant based on a geochemical map of > Mars. >> For example, plant species that eat rock (like > mosses and lichens) can > roughly be divided into species that like acidic > environments and those that > like basic environments. Research might take two > branches along those lines, > and look for species and conditions that maximize > soil production from a > wide variety of samples from the two regimes. >> In that vein, I think using Devon Island soil would > be great - and a win-win > situation since we'd be doing actual terrestrial > science, as well as looking > forward to Mars!
Good one Dean! Variety is the spice of life. It would be handy, especially for long term agricultural purposes, to be prepared for anything we come across. This could generate info that might be published as a chapter/chart in a manual on terraforming, but it won't be all that useful on the first mission to Mars.
We need to stay on track with the full-up CELSS experiments, wherever they might be made. It helps to have a central project/mission/focus comprehensive enough to allow many people to participate, each with their specialty, all working towards a common goal. The primary mission goal (to make a landing possible) is a CELSS capable of being deployed on Mars. The New Martians will need it. Once again, this is serious business. We will be responsible for keeping people alive.
This is not to say that we shouldn't also do long term agricultural research. I'm all for that too.
Now I must pick the kids up from school ...
Terry Kok at biostar_a@yahoo.com
--- Bill Clancey
I agree with the above. That's why we need an actual working greenhouse/CELSS. An ergonomic simulator can made and studied anywhere. So can a CELSS. - TK >> My own work includes articulating the *analog* > aspects of the Devon > Island expedition and habitat. The essential > characteristics appear to > be 1) the authentic work (astrobiology & geology > field science) in > combination with 2) a remote environment (logistics > and safety issues) > and 3) an evocative site (impact crater, > facilitates role playing). > When Kurt says "simulation" he is referring to these > broad > consideration--relating exploration, computing, > logistics, facility > design, etc.
I can see that. The role playing of potential scenarios is a useful strategy. But, wouldn't it be good to create as realistic a scenario as possible? In my book that means we should have a life supporting CELSS attached. >> One matter I would like to hear discussed: Why > should we have a CELSS > at Devon, when its essential aspects can be studied > in a more convenient > environment (e.g., a warehouse in a city). Related > to this, can you > tell me how your conception of what we could do at > Devon (wrt/ CELSS) > relates to the plans for BIO-Plex? >> Bill Clancey > Chief Scientist, Human-Centered Computing > Computational Sciences Division, M/S 269-3 > NASA/Ames Research Center > Moffett Field, CA 94035
BIO-Plex is not a CELSS. BIO-Plex is, for the most part, a physical-chemical life support system. What I propose is a BIOLOGICAL based CELSS (Controled Ecological Life Support System). Very little actual CELSS research is going on anywhere in NASA these days because it is "low priority" since the space station is "high" and it is NOT going to use a CELSS-style system. Yet, on Mars, we need something far more sustainable than physical-chemical systems, which are NOT cost/weight effective. My experiments in BIOSTAR-A (plus numerous related conversations with others in the professional life support community) have demonstrated that CELSS research needs to move out of the lab into the field. There is a huge difference between lab experiments and full working systems. I've lived in this testbed for (my daughter says) 4 years. I've gotten my hands dirty more times than I care to admit. I'm recycling real urine, feces, garbage, and wash water. Most of the lab experiments have used simulants. I am not impressed.
The primary reason why we should have a CELSS at Devon Island is because we need to test, not only the basic ecotechnics (which can be done anywhere), but also the INTERFACE between the CELSS and the arctic (Mars-like) environment. The HAB and the CELSS are meant to be mated, like a plants and animals. What one exhales the other inhales. I suppose we could build a giant freezer in the south to find out how a CELSS might function (long term) but an arctic environment would be better. Then, there are issues relating to the greenhouse materials, heating, lighting, etc. which would be better understood in a real environment situation. Besides, the people in the HAB need waste treatment, fresh water, and food to eat. Might the cost of the CELSS be less than the cost of shipping supplies in and out? Maybe ...
Terry Ryan Kok, ecotechnician Starlight Technology (812) 275-0694 biostar_a@yahoo.com
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In a message dated 04/18/2000 09:43:11 AM, Kmicheels writes:
<< What about growth in Devon Island soil, as a simulation of using simulant. We could still do the ergonomic simulations. This would be interesting as a stand alone activity as the soil at Devon is nutrient poor. >>
I guess is that it would be a worthwhile exercise.
Peter
Reply-to: "Dean Calahan, FoB"
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Removing Mike Hudson and adding Kurtis Mcbride (did I get the spelling right, Kurtis?)
Anyway, I'm about to send this out to arctic-sig as well, and wanted to also make sure to send out a current To: line, and update folks on my own status.
I noticed a work item on my plate: I was going to have the web stuff and mailing list pretty much tied up by last Friday. Well, it's almost there. My new tools will allow me to manage the mailing list as part of the whole website management, with the greatest of ease. You will see a "new" website sometime this week, that will look practically the same as the current one, created with the new tools. Following that will be a number of content additions:
1. Email archive 2. Notes from Teleconference 3. Notes from Calahan/Braham meeting 4. CVs/Resumes from everybody in the "proper format" (more to come on that soon!) 5. Hyperlink collection
I'd really like to get some design documents online as well. Kurt, Mindy, Dave, do you have anything interesting in that direction?
Anyway, here's the msg that I'm also sending to arctic-sig.
-Dean Calahan (206) 325-9145
= = = = =
I will summarize my own prejudices regarding the similarity between Haughton Crater and Mars, related to a life-support system. Where they are similar, there are meaningful design constraints. I suggest that we approach the constraints imposed by the similarities in an iterative fashion, first just getting an eco-engineered system up there, then iteratively approaching each constraint, until we get to the point where we really do have to put the thing in an environment chamber to make any progress.
SIMILARITIES
Both are at the end of a long logistical chain. Therefore, the system must be lightweight, compact, and low power. It should start up quickly and shut down quickly.
Both are attached to the habitat module after it is emplaced. Therfore, ergonomic factors come into it for setting up and access.
Both require regular maintenance and monitoring by attentive, conscientious people. Even after a hard day of science and dust discipline. Even if there are unanticipated problems.
DIFFERENCES
There's wind at Haughton that there isn't on Mars. There's more air pressure at Haughton. The 50-day sortie nature of the mission is dissimilar. If overwintering missions were done, the snow is dissimilar. No "Little White Friends" on Mars. (... we can all come up with more...)
Everyone, While I certainly will argue for the inclusion of a full-up CELSS to the FMARS plan, I am not against and will not attempt to stand in the way of anyone's experiments, of whatever nature. On the other hand, about a month ago this sig was filled with communications about CELSS and its potential components: lighting, aquatics, plant types, salt handling, greenhouse shapes and materials, sensor systems, nutrition, etc. This ended when we were informed that the Devon Island use restrictions precluded a stay longer than 3 months and that a CELSS was not in the plan. Be that what it may, it is a shame to lose the productive conversation/research we were doing together. We need a place to discuss CELSS and the long term (sustainable) life support projects that I know many people are interested in. How might this be accomplished? Terry at biostar_a@yahoo.com
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Terry,
While I do not have the knowledge or experience to make a meaningful contribution, this is surely a worthwhile project. Even apart from the pros and cons of integration with future runs of the M.A.R.S. the dry run, it is certainly of value to MARS. the Planet.
And as for PR value, it should generate quite a lot, making a 1-2 punch with M.A.R.S. even if the short seasons on Devon do not allow the two to be integrated.
We could see if Bruce Mackenzie or Jim Burk can get a separate sig address to continue this work, OR we could continue as we have been.
As a secondary project, or at least something to _always_ keep in mind, are partial demonstrations limited by what _can_ be integrated with M.A.R.S. in coming years even if a full-up CELSS cannot be worked in because of design and/or policy constraints on Devon Island beyond our control.
So let's accept the given, and figure out how to make the best of it in such a two-pronged effort.
(1) Continue the CELSS effort as a valuable stand-alone (2) be on the alert for subsystems etc. that we _can_ field test on Devon
Peter
From: Pokchoy@aol.com | Block address Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:44:41 EDT Subject: Re: Mars_Arct/ move CELSS research elsewhere To: biostar_a@yahoo.com
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Hello- I think we should create an additional project. Could we possibly construct a virtual 'living machine' type of habitat? I don't mean merely an animation, but a true simulation that can respond to various inputs. In this manner we can test out some concepts.
I have done some work in using PROLOG to create an AI program. Maybe it, or something similar, cn be used.
RB
From: Kmicheels@aol.com | Block address Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:16:45 EDT Subject: Re: Mars_Arct/ move CELSS research elsewhere To: biostar_a@yahoo.com, Arctic-sig@lists.marssociety.org
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In a message dated 4/19/00 10:56:58 AM EST, biostar_a@yahoo.com writes: Just to clarify. There are not actual use restrictions that prevent us from having a CELSS at Devon. The problem is a practical one. The weather is only suitable for flying in and out May to August. Outside of that envelope there is no way to get in and out other than snow mobile. Further, the support facility at resolute is only operational from April to August. So...any plants we bring in will only be tended for 3-4 months. This implies they must be flown in and out, thus a limited operation. Flying the plants and growth systems in and out works well with our simulation mission. >From time to time, wintering over is discussed. If that happens a full blown CELSS may happen. But it is not currently planned.
kam
<< While I certainly will argue for the inclusion of a full-up CELSS to the FMARS plan, I am not against and will not attempt to stand in the way of anyone's experiments, of whatever nature. On the other hand, about a month ago this sig was filled with communications about CELSS and its potential components: lighting, aquatics, plant types, salt handling, greenhouse shapes and materials, sensor systems, nutrition, etc. This ended when we were informed that the Devon Island use restrictions precluded a stay longer than 3 months and that a CELSS was not in the plan. Be that what it may, it is a shame to lose the productive conversation/research we were doing together. We need a place to discuss CELSS and the long term (sustainable) life support projects that I know many people are interested in. How might this be accomplished? >>
Subject: Re: Mars v. Arctic v. Subarctic
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Hi Dean,
Thanks for being on top of things. We'll have some documents for you to post on Monday. I apologize to all for the delay.
Dave
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
David M. Blersch Dept. Biological Resources Engineering University of Maryland College Park Phone: (301) 405-1183 dblersch@wam.umd.edu dblersch@aol.com From: "Kurtis Mcbride"
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Dean, Thank you for providing me with this list.
Group, My name is Kurtis McBride. I tried to send this message to the email link a while back but I had some problems. I was wondering if the MARS society might be interested in taking advantage of the opportunity I will have (assumming I am accepted to the program) at the Biosphere. Look forward to your comments.
****Original Message****
To Whom it may Concern,
There is a possibility that I will have an opportunity to study at Biosphere 2 in the Arizona Desert for four months starting in September. As part of my studies I will be required to undertake in an independent research project. The Biosphere installation will be available for my research.
Since the Biosphere project is an enclosed environment it will provide a unique opportunity to do research which could be applied to life on Mars. I don't know if the Mars society would be interested in my research, however, if you/they are, I would be willing to develop my research thesis with something that would benefit current or future Mars projects in mind. I am not sure that this email link is the forum for a discussion on this (I may be mistaken) but I encourage anyone who is interested to get in touch with me offline in order to discuss this option further. Thanks for your time.
Kurtis McBride
Subject: Re: Biosphere Research Opportunity Kurtis,
I've seen some progam description brochures on that Biosphere 2 program. University of Maryland has an exchange reciprocity with them as well. Congratulations on entering the program. I know that the Biosphere 2 has some old wetland and algae wastewater treatment systems in the basement/technosphere. They are no longer in use, but the hardware and setup should still be there. Perhaps we (as a group) could think of some valuable experiments that can add to our effort. Any suggestions? Dave
--- Pokchoy@aol.com wrote: > Hello- I think we should create an additional > project. Could we possibly construct a virtual 'living machine' type of > habitat? I don't mean merely an animation, but a true simulation that can respond to > various inputs. In this manner we can test out some concepts.
This is what is planned for Space Odyssey on the Lothlorien Nature Sanctuary. I will be posting more on this soon. Research teams will be needed in a number of areas. - TK >> I have done some work in using PROLOG to create an > AI program. Maybe it, or something similar, can be used. > RB
What might this AI program be capable of? A short description would help. We need a sensor net and you may very well have the brain power. Let us know. - TK
[ to Mars Society Arctic Base TF & discussion ] [ from Kmicheels@aol.com ] Why not create a separate CELSS group in the TTF? kam
Subject:: Biosphere Research Opportunity Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:31:04 -0500
Dave, Thank you very much for your show of interest. I look forward to hearing from other group members with ideas. I would like to point out that by no means am I asking this group to design experiments for me. I just feel that there is a lot of synergy between this group and what I am interested in. As such if we could share ideas for experiments with a mutually beneficial goal in mind it would help both of us. Thanks again for your interest. Kurtis
From: "Dean Calahan, FoB" Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:54:30 -0700
I have a question that might be answerable by your experiments, Kurtis: How fast can you get a system up and running? Say, starting with seeds and spores and eggs (and/or what not), to processing its daily workload and recirculating clean water back to the flush tank?
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Passing this on to the Arctic-Sig and Civ-Culture lists
NASA's idea of gitgo/gambit Mars agriculture: MENU FOR MARS What do Martians eat? Stir-fries, soups and sandwiches, it seems. NASA is making great strides with its menu for a 1000-day mission to Mars. A team led by Jean Hunter of Cornell University has spent two years concocting 200 recipes from plants which can all be grown in a hydroponic greenhouse on the Red Planet. So far NASA's black bean chilli has gone down well with volunteers. "I thought the food was delicious," says Elizabeth Babcock Woodring. Find out what other gastronomic delights the space agency has got up its sleeve... http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0422/chilli.html
Gastronauts savour the black bean chilli THE next generation of astronauts needn't fear for their stomachs: volunteers who have just spent 30 days dining on Martian cuisine have given it the thumbs up. It's all part of a NASA-funded project to create a suitable menu for a 1000-day mission to Mars. A team led by Jean Hunter of Cornell University has spent two years concocting 200 vegetarian recipes from plants, including wheat, tomatoes, soya and carrots, which are on the NASA shortlist of 15 crops that could be grown in a hydroponic greenhouse on Mars. "Test subjects liked them individually, but we wanted to see whether they would accept them in a steady diet," says Hunter. The menu had to include varied meals that were easy to prepare, supplied the right nutrients, and were low in sodium and iron. "Sodium can reach dangerous levels when water is cycled between a crew, bioreactors and plants," Hunter says. Astronauts also need less iron in their blood. The prospective Martians--16 Cornell staff members--ate meals which included black bean chilli, stews and stir-fries made with a wheat-based meat substitute, plus soups and sandwiches. The reaction of the volunteers was positive. "I thought the food was delicious," says Elizabeth Babcock Woodring. Getting the Mars menu right is important because a boringly monotonous diet can lead to psychological problems and the sort of serious weight loss experienced by some of the cosmonauts on the Mir space station. Also, growing food on the Red Planet could reduce the prohibitive cost of launching huge masses of prepackaged food--and so bring a Mars mission closer. Marcus Chown From New Scientist magazine, 22 April 2000.
'It has as many similarities to Mars as you are likely to find anywhere on Earth.' " ROBERT ZUBRIN Mars Society THE ISLAND bears a close resemblance to the Red Planet. It is cold and dry, covered in rocky ridges, valleys and craters. "It has as many similarities to Mars as you are likely to find anywhere on Earth," Robert Zubrin, founder of the society, told the British-based New Scientist magazine. However, the magazine pointed out in Wednesday's issue that the site differs in one obvious and crucial respect: The atmosphere on Mars is 100 times thinner. Zubrin intends to complete the Mars Arctic Research Station by the middle of 2000 at a cost of about $1 million. It will simulate the self-contained environment that life on Mars would entail and will allow scientists and engineers to test equipment that would be needed to survive on the planet.
© 2000 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.
Joseph Lee Barlow - 07:34pm Jan 13, 1999 (8.) Salt would aid survival Cabbage would be good crop,when planted from seed takes 120 days to produce harvest without pollination.Late Dutch variety produce heads size of basket balls.If kept cool will keep for months.However if salt is available and clay churns it can be shredded and made into sour crout.Crout will keep for years.Radish and turnips could provide quick harvest.Brocclie will produce 1 large head,but if fertilized and watered it will produce dozens of smaller heads making it very desireable for mars project.Seeds are very small 1lbs. of each properly planted would plant acres.Diet may be limited at first but job of first colony is to survive long enough to open new frontier.
Robert Parker - 09:27pm Jan 26, 1999 (8.1) Cabbage and other leafy greens also provide oxygen Cabbage and other leafy greens are also the best candidates for a bio-regenerative life support system due to their surface area for respiration.
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We are approx.100nm east of Resolute Bay, on Cornwallis Island. It has a permanent population of 198 persons, that is 81% Inuit. Devon could be reached over sea ice in the winter, but it is a very dangerous trip. The Canadian Government facility, Polar Continental Shelf Project discontinues operation in August, and reopens in May.
<< how far from the Devon site to the nearest year round habitated spot ("who" is it and what do they "do" there ?) >>
[ from vhoxie@bnonlinear.com (Vaughn Hoxie) ] http://www.newscientist.com/news/news_223526.html Sludge power Keep your spaceship in running order with a sewage cocktail ASTRONAUTS may one day be able to use their spacecraft's septic tank to keep in touch with ground control--as long as they have plenty of sugar. Scientists in Michigan have developed a biofuel cell that creates a constant, low-power electricity supply by feeding glucose to common bacteria such as E. coli. Biochemists Gregory Zeikus and Doo Hyun Park at Michigan State University in East Lansing have manipulated the bugs' metabolism to convert them into tiny powerhouses. They have built a 0©6 volt biofuel cell that can deliver currents of up to 17 milliamperes. Bacteria normally break down glucose to generate adenosine triphosphate--the main energy source for cells. This involves a flow of electrons, which the researchers have tapped into by adding a chemical called neutral red. Molecules of neutral red insert themselves into the bacterial membrane, where they hijack the reaction's electron-transport process, and shuttle electrons onto an electrode. "It's like an electric plug," says Zeikus. "You put it in the cell membrane and put the cells in a cathode to make electricity." The method isn't likely to be powering your CD player any time soon, but Zeikus says it could be used as a backup method of maintaining communications in remote areas such as space. There is a bonus, too. Because some of the bacteria's energy is diverted to producing electricity, they don't multiply as fast as usual, leaving less sludge to dispose of. Ziekus and Park are not the only researchers exploring the electrical potential of sugar-fed biofuel cells. Itamar Willner and his colleagues in the chemistry department of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Israel, for example, are using enzymes rather than bacteria to make batteries that could be implanted in people's bodies. Powered by blood sugar, the batteries could one day power pacemakers, insulin pumps and prostheses.
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